Armadillo Run forum

Overlord wrote:Welcome to the forum, mattyoaks!

You've got a pretty reasonable score for a starter. Do not tear away just because someone has posted a high score, with some tweaking you could get a winner. And never refuse to submit a solution just because it wouldn't win - the more different solutions in the results the better!

1788+

Gave it a right good tweaking!


ps USA beating Brazil in Confederation Cup... Last goal was textbook! (Sorry for the OT... Too exciting )

mi2 launcher

I like how it sounds

The 2-0 was a crazy goal, amazing!!!!!

Back to the scores issue, I think:

1) mi2's launcher version is too powerful, it should be classified as illegal (I'm sure ioncorpse will hate it)
2) consequence of the 1): this contest will probably end up in a tie, or something similar (and the scores are relatively far from the final ones)...

Actually upon further inspection, I believe the launcher is, in fact, dark. Give me a few minutes to diagram up an explanation.

I don't see anything dark in it, just welding and mass, which makes the welding more effective by applying bigger force on the endnode. There are no nodes overlapping and nothing breaks, but still I'm looking forward to your proof, because then I would oficially be the light winner of the previous contest

This launcher is as dark as the classic one without the falling rope + bar.
Everybody knows that this structure breaks the energy manteinance law, infact if you analyze it as a lever it isn't true that:

F1 * A1 = F2 * A2 ( force * arm )

If I ain't wrong there is a very nice demonstration in a previous topic by JonathanF...

Anyway, it was stated that it is LIGHT, so even this one should be considered the same.
On the other hand I agree that now the power is much more......

Although I fear causing myself huge embarrassment I can't get this mi2 launcher under control, rope breaks, nodes pop out, Dillo goes nowhere. Once I got it within a Dillo's width of the portal, then I tweaked a bit and lost it. I'm guessing it's just me cause everyone else is thrilled to bits with this new launcher, is everybody else really finding it that easy to use

Finished writing up a step-by-step explanation of how the launcher is Dark, but it seems that it might not matter, as it was already ruled Light. Should I still post it?

Also: $1790+, using Mi2 Launcher.

EDIT: Here's the explanation, anyways, if someone cares to read it.
Be warned, the images show cropped portions of a possible Mi2 launcher, so they may contain partial spoilers.

http://sendai45.googlepages.com/Mi2_dark_launcher.txt
http://sendai45.googlepages.com/Mi2_Paddle.JPG
http://sendai45.googlepages.com/Mi2_Launcher.JPG

Overlord wrote:mi2 launcher

I like how it sounds

haha me too . comming home from work and reading all the time that name (mi2 launcher ) thats a cool feeling .light or dark i dont know but imo there is nothing against the rules

by Overlord on Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:24 pm
I don't see anything dark in it, just welding and mass, which makes the welding more effective by applying bigger force on the endnode.

. its sure powerful.

mattyoaks dont forget to attach a level solution in your pm. i dint receive anything from you. anyway welcome to the forum

I've campaigned once already in the past to have welding classified as dark for the simple reason that it is quite frankly dark.

At that time these types of welding launchers were fairly rare, and few considered that they were going to become a real problem.
However, times change and to me they have indeed become a problem.

Cresta said recently that it has been a long time since he's seen a purely light solution win the light competition, and I have to agree with him.
It's almost impossible now to win the light medal without creating dark force in some way, and how stupid is that situation really?

It's like we have a Really Dark medal and a Little Bit Dark medal. We don't really have a light medal anymore.

To me there are two clearly understandable and defineable ways forward...

1. Do nothing. Change nothing.
2. Class ANY welding as dark.

We have tried in the past to leave common sense to define what is light and dark, and we have ended up with a situation where solutions exploding with dark energy are winning the light competition. Leaving the rules open to common sense didn't work.

I therefore suggest that we experiment with calling ALL welding dark. When starting a new competition we could state in the rules if we will class welding as light or dark. Leave the decision up to the competition host for now. What do you think?

Indeed another idea would be to clarify what is dark in one very simple rule:

Dark = Any overlapping nodes OR materials at the start of the level.

Welded metal bars are overlapping. Look at them in 3D. It's impossible in the real world to make that construction, and it's that very impossibility that confuses the physics engine and creates dark energy.

It sure would be refreshing to have such a simple and easy to explain definition of what is dark and what is light. If it overlaps it is dark, if it doesn't it's light. How simple is that? It's not perfect but the problems it would solve far outweigh the complicated alternative of trying to define what type of overlap is okay and what isn't.

Obviously these are only my opinions.

I agree with what V4 is saying. I'm not entirely sure that even banning welding will eliminate Dark Force in light solutions (I can think of a few Mi2-style launchers that have no crossed bars or overlapped nodes) but it will be a step in the right direction.

Yeah, when a solution so overflowing with dark energy is classed as light, we obviously have a problem with the rules.

I say leave it up to the competition hosts to say something like

Rule 1: Welding will be considered dark in this competition

or

Rule 2: ANY overlapping nodes or materials will be considered dark in this compeition.

Personally I like the simplicity of Rule 2 because it defines everything we have ever considered to be dark in the past, and includes these new welding launchers. It also includes a range of other dark force creating situations that slip into the light category.

i know what you mean. that Welding is sure close to dark.considering Welding as dark would be force most of us (especially me ) to build some new things.that would cause many different solutions i think and thats cool. but on the other side i like that launchers .

Banning welding is going to be hard. While these launchers are obviously welding there are a lot of constructions that are just a little welding or almost not welding. I think there's going to be a lot of arguments about those borderline cases.

Banning all overlapping makes it very clear whats light and whats dark but would also make a lot of nice structures (that create no force at all) impossible.

Maybe we could make A-league ultralight and leave B-league as it is?

EDIT: Almost forgot: 1791+

No worries, mi2! Your launcher can be constructed even without welding or overlapping nodes. It's not as strong, but still usable.

Edit: $1792 + Welding