ARFC A CXXXVIII Contest (till 23.12 at 18:00 GMT)

[V4nKw15h]

I have BIG problems distinguish my light and dark solutions...............
I continue improving, but I'm slowly sliding in dark side, and can't define a precise border.......

NEED A RULE

I blame you for the confusion. Lol. As far as I can tell, if it's a flipper it's dark. If not, then its a lottery as to whether your solution is light or dark. It depends whether the host likes the look of it or not.

I'm playing around by the way, but seriously, my jokes are not so far from the truth. Until we can clear up these rules.

Overlapping nodes and materials should be dark no matter what. Then we at least have a clear rule on the subject. At the moment the rules say it's illegal in certain configurations, but it doesn't describe what those "configurations" are.

You wont win this one anyway Give up and move on. This one is mine.

[FF]

I have BIG problems distinguish my light and dark solutions...............
I continue improving, but I'm slowly sliding in dark side, and can't define a precise border.......

NEED A RULE

Standart way is asking host. Ask me

EDIT: Yep, we need new rules. Maybe (just for an experiment) we can forbid welding and other types of overlapping next competition?!

[Cresta]

You wont win this one anyway Give up and move on. This one is mine.

You surely don't want to break my positive series!!
This evening (obviously after the Inter FC & AC Milan derby ) I'll send in my solutions...

[FF]

Look at the third(from up to down) lock, guys. Metal bar end node must NOT go through another metal bar if u want your solution to be light.

[V4nKw15h]

Look at the third(from up to down) lock, guys. Metal bar end node must NOT go through another metal bar if u want your solution to be light.

Jesus, the ball alone landing on the metal plate sends the metal bar through. It's actually really hard to stop it. Since when has that been in the rules?

This is getting ridiculous. It's one rule for one level and another for another level. How is anyone meant to know?

I suggested that all overlapping materials should be classed as dark and everyone says different. Then in the next competition when I submit a great score with an overlapping material it suddenly changes. You are hosting this competition by winning with overlapping materials and overlapping end nodes with materials!!! If it was okay for you why is it suddenly not okay for me?

I sent you a solution 30 minutes after you posted the level, where this metal bar thing happens, yet you wait for 2 days before you inform anyone that it's going to be classed as dark?

I don't care because I'll likely take the dark medal instead, but this whole light/dark thing is ridiculous.

Now suddenly with less than a day of the competition left I have to look for another solution, yet I have no more time. Thanks.

We need rules and we need them fast. I'm so damn frustrated right now with this light/dark situation and I'm betting everyone else is too.

In all previous contests I have done the honourable thing and labelled anything with dark force in it as dark. In the last A contest I submitted the highest scoring purely light solution and lost to 4 people with technically dark solutions. I thought fine, as long as I know. If it's not breaking the rules it's fine.
Well my solution to this breaks no written rule, yet suddenly now I'm penalised because you didn't realise how easy it was to solve this level. That is not my fault.

I can't win. I do the right thing and lose. I do what everyone else does and suddenly the rules miraculously change mid contest.

[Ikerous]

Since when has that been in the rules?

Afaik, this is the first time that's ever been dark. Odd things going on with pre-placed materials normally don't count towards light/dark.

[Cresta]

Infact this is not in the rules... This is not C league, if your lock could be bypassed by breaking it this is not players fault....

[Cresta]

I think we should follow the rule defined by PeterT:

To be eligible to win the contest, your solution may not use any bugs in the physics engine. This includes using the "force" (that is generated when an endpoint of some material intersects with another material) to either provide continuous power (i.e. for rotating mecahnisms) or aid in the destruction of parts of the predefined level.
- However, overlapping materials are OK, as long as none of the above criteria are met. This means that "welding" is allowed, even if the points intersect at the start of the level

Every solution must be compared with this statement, and must be defined as light or dark.
Every problem will be solved by the community, following (and improving, if it's necessary) this rule.

[V4nKw15h]

I think we should follow the rule defined by PeterT:

To be eligible to win the contest, your solution may not use any bugs in the physics engine. This includes using the "force" (that is generated when an endpoint of some material intersects with another material) to either provide continuous power (i.e. for rotating mecahnisms) or aid in the destruction of parts of the predefined level.
- However, overlapping materials are OK, as long as none of the above criteria are met. This means that "welding" is allowed, even if the points intersect at the start of the level

Every solution must be compared with this statement, and must be defined as light or dark.
Every problem will be solved by the community, following (and improving, if it's necessary) this rule.

Ah, so then my solution is light. Peter T is basically talking continuous rotating mechanisms and breaking materials by intersecting endpoints. I don't do either.

What I find very interesting and that I never read before properly was this part...."even if the points intersect at the start of the level".

Therefore I must apologise to FF because I believe I said he broke the rules with his last A league entry. He didn't. He uses dark force but by the rules it is allowed. I was of the belief that overlapping end nodes in any way was dark, but it seems it is okay when no destruction occurs because of it.

So FF, I offer my apologies for stating you broke any rule.

However, by these same rules the 2944 entries in the last A league are actually light. They neither created continuous power nor caused any destruction. I don't want the medals changed for the last A league, but I am interested in whether those 2944 solutions should be considered light in future contests.

[FF]

OMG, guys, my english is too bad to read and understand all that :/ Please dont forget that not for all forum members english is a native language.

As I understand, U all think that metal bar end node in the third lock can go through another metal bar by the light way?

Ok, let it be so, this rule is canceled now.

P.S. Oh it's so hard to be host now... It was much easier earlier

[V4nKw15h]

OMG, guys, my english is too bad to read and understand all that :/ Please dont forget that not for all forum members english is a native language.

As I understand, U all think that metal bar end node in the third lock can go through another metal bar by the light way?

Ok, let it be so, this rule is canceled now.

P.S. Oh it's so hard to be host now... It was much easier earlier

Don't worry FF we are all still friends

You have mail. I just sent the perfect solution to you.

Good luck guys. Come on Cresta, give me your best shot

Edit: I just improved my perfect solution by another $6. Poor FF. Judging this is going to make his head explode.

[decsystem10]

very quietly...why don't we just fix the program?

[V4nKw15h]

very quietly...why don't we just fix the program?

lol, so funny

Unfortunately it's not quite as simple as that. Doing so would break compatibility with every level previously. Every solution would no longer work.

From a programming perspective it's really not that easy either.

[TSchultz]

very quietly...why don't we just fix the program?

I thought he was making a new version in which materials couldn't overlap.

[V4nKw15h]

I think we should follow the rule defined by PeterT:

To be eligible to win the contest, your solution may not use any bugs in the physics engine. This includes using the "force" (that is generated when an endpoint of some material intersects with another material) to either provide continuous power (i.e. for rotating mecahnisms) or aid in the destruction of parts of the predefined level.
- However, overlapping materials are OK, as long as none of the above criteria are met. This means that "welding" is allowed, even if the points intersect at the start of the level

Every solution must be compared with this statement, and must be defined as light or dark.
Every problem will be solved by the community, following (and improving, if it's necessary) this rule.

Where exactly does this quote come from? It is very specific and much clearer than the linked rules provided for each competition.

I like how specific it is. This is exactly what we need.

I don't really care what is classed as light and what is dark, as long as I know. I'm quite happy to accept PeterT's definition. It's clean and easy to understand. Flippers = Dark. Breaking the level with overlapping materials at the start = Dark. Everything else = light.

I think the confusion came when hosts started claiming other things were dark that weren't mentioned in the rules. If we allow this to continue we can claim just about anything is dark if we want to. We could claim Ikerous's solution to the last 'A' league was Dark by those standards. It definately had some dark power at play, but that doesn't mean it should be called a Dark solution.