ARF Contest A #CXXII (From now till 21.10.07 18:00 GMT)

[Ikerous]

So after realising I wasn't totally missing the plot on this one, and 9850L being really 9850D :), I decided to give L a try.

9200+ L

Anyone else willing to throw a real light score down so I know if I'm still way out of my league here.

Hi all BTW, I finally got my account authorized.

I've got a 9800+ that's light

[V4nKw15h]

Hi all BTW, I finally got my account authorized.[/quote]
I've got a 9800+ that's light[/quote]

Yeah, I've been playing around and got a 9750 not tweaked at all, but I'm very confused with what is light and dark now.

It's such a grey area. I can completely understand flippers being dark. They have perpetual force. But if two objects start on top of each other due to lack of space, and then spread out after the simulation starts, is that dark? If no perpetual force is evident?

[NickyNick]

Hello Vanquish (correct? ), welcome to ARFC!
The situation you described is overlapping of endnodes, which is dark by the official rules. You can check 'em out here: http://armadillo.metaclassofnil.com/for ... .php?t=232

[V4nKw15h]

Vanquish or Vankwish is fine. I never expect anyone to type it with all the numbers. I just like the shape of it like V4nKw15h. It has more impact in my eyes.

Thanks for the welcome.

Now I'm utterly baffled. If any overlapping of endnodes is dark, how in bejesus is it possible to get 9800+ light on this thing. I could do it with a little overlapping at the start but yikes on a stick, a full size rocket doesn't shift the thing otherwise.

I'll have another look tomorrow, but methinks Ikerous must be talking dark too.

[Ikerous]

100% light

Don't forget the competition ends tomorrow

[NickyNick]

Hmm I'm really not sure. This part of the rules is the slipperest. We'll look on your solution tomorrow and decide

2 Ike: I think it's time to edit the rules a bit to avoid all this crap with overlapping.

[Ikerous]

2 Ike: I think it's time to edit the rules a bit to avoid all this crap with overlapping.

Yeah the rules on overlapping definitely need to be clarified. Although I'm hesitant about removing it completely. Sometimes the push that comes from overlapping nodes just doesn't seem light at all. Leaving it up to the host always seems to work pretty well

[NickyNick]

2 Ike: I think it's time to edit the rules a bit to avoid all this crap with overlapping.

Yeah the rules on overlapping definitely need to be clarified. Although I'm hesitant about removing it completely. Sometimes the push that comes from overlapping nodes just doesn't seem light at all. Leaving it up to the host always seems to work pretty well

Yeah, of course we shouldn't remove it. I just think that we should make this part of rules much more definite (maybe, with screenshots).

[JonathanF]

A great example for that would be your "Bizarre" solution to Peter's (I can't seem to remember his nick, maybe Snowball?) "Train" competition.
It was obviously dark

[TSchultz]

Also unw's void level with only metal plates.

[smjjames]

When I tried to download and extract the files from http://armadillo.metaclassofnil.com/for ... php?t=1018 (that's the place JonathanF mentioned) so I could see Ikerous's bizarre solution, I keep getting some sort of complaint about the destination folder not suppourting encryption.

Is that because of the difference between versions?

Anyways, I agree, we do need clarification on what exactly is a dark solution. AFAIK, a dark solution has at least one part that uses the force and is not part of the origional solution. However, when looking at the force overlay, sometimes it looks like normal materials can go dark in the way force objects do, so it's kind of a blurred boundary between the definitions.

[V4nKw15h]

2 Ike: I think it's time to edit the rules a bit to avoid all this crap with overlapping.

Yeah the rules on overlapping definitely need to be clarified. Although I'm hesitant about removing it completely. Sometimes the push that comes from overlapping nodes just doesn't seem light at all. Leaving it up to the host always seems to work pretty well

Oh dear, I've stired up a can of worms here. NickyNick is telling me nodes can't overlap with another object and Ikerous is saying sometimes overlapping nodes don't seem to be light at all.

Then there is overlapping objects. Ignoring nodes. Like two metal bars connected together by a node, but then rotated to overlap. It's not physically possible in the real world, and creates force. Is it dark. Yikes.

Personally, I would like to see dark classified as any type of perpetual force, and anything else to be light. I think completely eliminating overlapping objects or nodes from the world of light could seriously ruin the creativity available to solving some levels. However, if the overlapping created a force that lasted for more than a split second it would be considered dark. Just my inexperienced opinion of course.

Take a look at the catcher on my winning light submission for the previous N competition Pony. It starts with two overlapping metal bars folded back on each other. It actually does create a perpetual force, and 7 times out of 10 (prior to tweaking) it would kick the ball and it's cart back out. I considered it light for the submission because with a tweak that force didn't kick in. Thankfully I also sent in another submission that still would have won and didn't use that catcher. At the time I didn't know if the cheap catcher was dark or light.

I guess it should be considered dark, but we need a very clearly worded ruleset for dark and light I think to avoid this type of confusion.

[JustcallmeDrago]

I hope immediate destruction is left dark because it falls in the "overlapping nodes" catagory.

[CN Player]

9800+L, 100% light

[CN Player]

this is dark?