VOTE FOR CHANGE TO AR2

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Do you want to change to AR2 to end the Dark force dabate

Yes, I would like to change to AR2 for Light solutions.
5
83%
No, I want to continue using AR1 for Light solutions
0
No votes
I am happy to use either version of AR for Light solutions
1
17%
 
Total votes : 6

VOTE FOR CHANGE TO AR2

Postby markmadras » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:00 am

I have opened up this poll to see what you would all like to do. Changes to the Dark rules need to be made to bring an end to this debate. Changing to AR2 will put an end to any argument over what should and what should not be allowed in a Light solution and it will be impossible to break the rules as they will be governed by the new AR2 physics engine which will no longer allow Dark energy to be created.

When the tweaked version of AR2 is released I would expect any newcomer to the contests to be expecting to use it. I think the change to AR2 is therefore unavoidable for all Light solutions. Obviously AR1 will still be used for the Dark solutions. The AR1 & 2 combined programs share the same menu and list off saved levels so there will be no problem changing from Light to Dark solutions. When submissions are made to a contest host it will be necesary to clearly indicate if the solution is Dark or Light so the host knows which version of AR to run it in.

New featues in AR2 will add a lot to level creation. Variable gravity goes from the Dillo being light as a feather up to it weighing enough to shatter steel plate. You can put up to five colour coded Dillo's and portals into a level. The Dillo now bounces off all surfaces as it would in the real world. Air resistance has been made more true to life and when you run a solution it can be speeded up as well as slowed down, very usefull when tweaking a long slow solution. It is also possible to change the prices on all the construction materials during level creation.

If you disagree with this change then please add comment to the forum with your own solution for the Dark force debate.
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Re: VOTE FOR CHANGE TO AR2

Postby V4nKw15h » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:43 am

I would be very surprised if anyone would want to use the original AR1 for light solutions.

I even think it would be rather strange to have light and dark solutions anymore in the same competition. It would make far more sense to me to have the competitions seperated. They will be using totally different physics engines, and different rulesets.

It seems to make the most sense to me to convert the A and B leagues entirely to the new AR2 version. It's clean, simple, elegant, and no explanation is required for new players. Hopefully it will allow the community to grow.

A third competition thread could be started for those who still wish to play with AR1, although I think it will have limited appeal once we start experimenting with the new options available to us in AR2. Pricing rockets, timers, and tension correctly is going to open up a whole new challenge in solutions. Not to mention multiple dillos etc.

I'm sure Peter is hoping to get some new interest and sales by upgrading the game, and new players will only be confused if competitions require them to jump between different versions of the game.

I suggest we move with the times and convert our main competitions to AR2 once it's out of beta, and leave AR1 for specialist competitions for those who can't let go.

I know I'll find a renewed interest in the game with AR2. I always hated the ambiguity of light/dark solutions anyway.
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Re: VOTE FOR CHANGE TO AR2

Postby Votart Silak » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:57 am

At me is not present AR2 and where to buy here in Russia I do not know! :(
The way of acquisition offered on an official site does not suit me. Any who may help me with acquisition I can send money through Western Union. :D
Life as a zebra: that a light, that a dark, and in the end - an ass!
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Re: VOTE FOR CHANGE TO AR2

Postby V4nKw15h » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:48 pm

This makes me believe you are using a pirated copy of Armadillo Run Votart, because accessing the AR2 beta is very simple if you already have a registered version of AR1.

For someone who has played so much of this game, you should be ashamed to not have paid Peter a penny for your entertainment already.

Buy it here:
http://www.armadillorun.com/buy/
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Re: VOTE FOR CHANGE TO AR2

Postby markmadras » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:18 pm

Vankwish, nice to hear from you and thank you for your comments, I had never considered doing away with Dark solutions in the normal competitions. Obviously for newcomers they would not know what they were missing and it would keep the contests a lot easier to run with it all on AR2. As you have suggested, a seperate league could be run to include Dark solutions for those who want to continue using the Force.

I think if the change over to AR2 is going to happen then it would be good to do it now while it is in the Beta phase as this will help Peter to iron out any other issues with the physics engine and to introduce any other functions which we may feel it could benefit from. I am waiting for a reply from Peter in respect of sending AR2 solutions by PM, at the moment it is not possible, once that is resolved there is nothing to stop us changing over. This will be the best test the new program could have before it is launched :)
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Re: VOTE FOR CHANGE TO AR2

Postby V4nKw15h » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:40 pm

Yes good point Mark. The AR2 code seems stable from the short time I've had to try it out, and using it for all future competiton is a great idea, even while in beta. It's not going to be fully tested by those active on this forum unless it's used for the competitions. I will also be inspired to play again to test out the new engine especially if the pricing on Rubber, Elastic, tension, timers is cleverly chosen by the competition host to allow for lots of interesting new solutions.

I think it has enough new features to keep us all busy for a good while. I don't think we will even miss the dark solutions.

It might be worth reducing B league duration to 5 days instead of 7 once this happens. Without the need to create a seperate dark solution 7 days is too long.

AR2 also seems to happily allow welding without creating dark force which is a great bonus. Welding itself allows for much more interesting and tweakable light solutions, but the dark force it created ruined it. I've tested the welding launchers and they no longer work in AR2. They act just like you would expect they would in the real world. My point is that AR2 gives us the freedom to weld and do interesting things without worrying about dark/light. We can hunt down new and interesting solutions without them ever being considered dark.
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Re: VOTE FOR CHANGE TO AR2

Postby markmadras » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:42 pm

Vankwish, I agree entirely with everything you have said. I have played with AR2 and did find a tiny glitch with the Dillo bouncing off an anchor faster than it hit it, Peter confirmed 15% more energy was being produced in the bounce and he would deal with it the best he could, fortunately I don't think it is likely that anyone could harness this energy to any great effect. Everything else seems fine and it will certainly add to the game being able to use welding again without the Dark force.

It would be great to see this site get busy again and (imo) that is unlikely to happen if we don't change the contests to AR2.
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Re: VOTE FOR CHANGE TO AR2

Postby markmadras » Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:20 pm

From mi2’s post in “Tiny Tube” results. (This did contain lots of smilies but they were lost during copy and paste)

sure even the lightest solution will produce some dark energy. the main different for me is the dark force that is produced by some random effects or the dark force that exists right from the begin of the simulation. we cant define the light rules that good. there are millions of ways in ar so each contest is unique and needs his own judgment . we are all Ar pros and should know whats ok and what not.thats confused me because you really thought you build something light mark .in ar2 all these will be history

------------------------------------------------------
OK, mi2, I know, just as we all do, what is Dark and what is Light :) . Even though my solution contained an element where the Dark force bug is put to good use, as far as the rules are concerned my solution and Rob’s were both 100% Light. I did not “think” I had built a Light solution, I “knew” it contained Dark forces, but I also “knew” it was in full compliance with the Light rules.

Let me clarify what this debate is about and what it is not about. This debate is about what we “classify as Dark” in respect of the contests rules. It is not about what we “know to be Dark”. It has also branched into the subject of moving all future contests over to AR2 which will make the Light and Dark rules obsolete.

We “know” the Light version of the mi2 launcher is Dark but we “classify” it as Light. We “know” in many configurations that welding produces Dark force but we used to “classify” it as Light. We also “know” that in some configurations welding did not produce any Dark force (at least none of any use) but had to class it all as Dark in order to make the rules possible to understand, especially in respect of newcomers to the game. (That has lost us the option to use welding in any Light solution which was a very useful construction technique something you, mi2, made quite clear you were not in favour of banning). That made us all move a step backwards imo.

So we now have a situation where you could put welding in a solution that did not produce any usable Dark force, (as an example the construction of a tower with some crossed over bars), but it would “classify” the solution as Dark. On reflection you can use the Light version of the mi2 launcher which we all “know” uses Dark force but the solution would be “classified” as Light. This I think we would all agree is ridiculous and there have to be changes.

The post I did earlier about your solution mi2, in the Tiny Tube results, was partly a joke (I am surprised you did not bite :lol: ) but in reality your solution has to be classed as Dark because the falling bars overlap at the nodes, watch them spring apart when it runs. Rob pointed this out to me not long ago and I had to tweak a solution to make it Light. Again this is ridiculous but the rules have to be clear so that anybody from a veteran to a novice knows exactly what is and is not allowed in a Light solution. There cannot be any grey areas in the rules which are left to the opinion of the host. As hosts we would all be likely to have different levels of acceptance for what we would judge as Dark or Light and you cannot run contests with variable rules not when the variable is governed by an individuals opinion.

The few players we have left on this forum could get by with a load of if’s and but’s in the rules and continue to make changes as we go along but this is certain to deter newcomers and for the sake of the longevity of this game we NEED newcomers, lots of them.

So far the votes are 100% in favour of a change to AR2 and nobody has put up any good reason for not changing over.

Mi2, would you like to make your views clear on a change to AR2 and voice any objections you may have.

EDIT. Peter has just confirmed that it is now possible to send AR2 solutions by PM so there is nothing now in the way of a changeover.
At present you cannot open the AR2 solutions in AR1 if received by PM although any levels and solutions done on your own PC seem to be compatible both ways. I will find out if the files can be made fully compatible.

Please will all other players, even those who do not normally submit solutions, make their views known and cast their vote.

If you enjoy playing this game please help us to make it better.
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Re: VOTE FOR CHANGE TO AR2

Postby markmadras » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:33 pm

I have just heard from Peter that it is likely that the official release will have a new simulation program in it. This means that it may not be backward compatible with any of the solutions we make while using the Beta version. I doubt that this will be a problem for any of us but thought you should all know.
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