Armadillo Run forum

PeterT wrote:"The Force" is a collective term for mechanisms that use a bug in the physics engine to generate momentum without using tension or other "realistic" means.

When this structure showed up, it replaced any kind of light method to produce energy:
fallig objects, pulleys, any type of ingenious constructions, all were abandoned, and there was only this one. Many people was against it (not me)..


Now, if we allow even to this launcher to be considered light, everybody will start up to use just this one, without creativity, just copying in asinine way. I see it in myself: I'm working at two levels, and in both I'm using massively this structure, becouse anything else would be more expensive.
I see this game is getting worse because it's becoming a pure repetition of always the same models, almost copy-pasted and adapted to the specific level..
I think this is ridiculous, and lacking in any creativity, so I want to poll your opinion on this.

I voted Yes, because that would throw the progress of our contests some years back when people were inexperienced and could afford to build any kind of expensive structures based on their physical thinking, not just copying the same structure over and over. That will also encourage new players to come in and participate, as they will see that no special knowledge of AR engine bugs is needed and everyone is already qualified.

Make ALL overlapping dark!!
Even the slightest ammount anywhere.

If it's impossible in the real world it should be dark.

Why have we been dancing around this subject for so long?

Let's finally make a rule that anyone can understand in 5 seconds.

Definition of Dark: All intersecting objects or nodes are dark.

V4nKw15h wrote:Definition of Dark: All intersecting objects or nodes are dark.

+1, and some other curious constructions also (like UFO).

I voted yes, because restrictions breed creativity. By shaking up the rules we can break free of the copy/paste mentality of our current solutions and focus on discovering new method of solving puzzles.

I voted YES, because I copy-pasted your vote.

I didn't vote because I think we should let the host decide. I will no doubt enjoy solving levels ultralight but I like welding too so I'd be perfectly happy if about half the contests were ultralight.

(Still think that making A-league ultralight and leave B-league as it is now should be considered as well)

Maybe even make 3 leagues

Ultralight league: best ultralight gets medal and hosts next
Twilight league: best light+welding+crossing material gets medal and hosts next
Dark league: best solution gets medal and hosts next. No rules whatsoever.

In all 3 leagues host should decide contestlength depending on level complexity.

V4nKw15h wrote:Make ALL overlapping dark!!

wait! even if there is no force created ?sometimes it helps to build catchers and stuff like that

example

thats dark?

That is absolutely dark, and dark force is being created in the process too. Not to mention that it's physically impossible to construct in reality.

I've seen that exact thing (cloth overlapping a metal bar) create a lifting force. The cloth can snag in the metal bar and the physics engine doesn't equalise the energy forces. This can cause lifting or rotation.

Of course there are certain situations where welding creates no force, but if you can define the difference in a single simple one sentence rule I'm a zebra. We've tried to define the difference and tried to allow common sense to rule but it has failed.

@Rob, 3 leagues will not survive. There are barely enough players to keep two leagues alive.

come on thats rubbish . when peter designed this game he wanted overlapping to be possible. your argument is always the real world but is a GAME its not the real world. that goes in the wrong direction now . calling the welding launcher as dark its ok but calling ALL overlapping as dark is rubbish imo

What I find rubbish is calling a solution rubbish without explaining a better one.

I absolutely agree that it's not the ideal solution, but tell me the ideal solution.
This is the problem we have always had. We suggest banning welding and people complain without giving a better solution. The arguement obviously then goes in a circle and nothing happens. We end up with some vague attempt to ban a very specific type of structure, only for everyone to then find a new way to exploit the rules.

Please don't complain without offering a better alternative. It's already confusing enough explaining what is dark and what is light. The last thing we need is to make the situation even more complex by adding yet more confusion. Can you write down the rules about what is Dark right now, nevermind if we add even more abitrary dark constructions. I'm pushing for a simple elegant explanation of what is dark to make it easier for new players to get involved, and that will inevitably include some structures where no dark force is present. I think the benefits of that outweigh the problems.

And yes the game was designed to allow overlapping, but we have learned to exploit this in the physics engine. That part was not designed.

I also have strongly suggested that we TEST the idea. Nothing is written in stone yet. Guessing what effect it will have on competition and fun is very different to actually testing it. Banning all overlapping may prove to be too limiting, but how do we actually know that until we test it?

we can test it no problem but here is what i think.solutions will look very similar. that would take a lot of the spirit i love .

considering welding launcher as dark would be fine,considering All overlapping as dark is the wrong way imo

Maybe we can stop discussion & test new proposal of light rules. In next competitions hoster can add additional rule: "Overlapping is Dark". After few competitions we will see, is it good or not.

I agree with ioncorpse, let the hoster of contest defines in rules "Overlapping is Dark or Light".