Would anyone mind a new "C" league?

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Postby snowlord » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:36 pm

NickyNick wrote:So... how about of starting C comp from monday? If you mind some questions, problems and other stuff about this - come up with your ideas for that
I think that we definitely can start it, just need to make agree it with our electronic deus PeterT :D

I'm gonna go ahead and start it in the General Contest thread in a moment!

NickyNick wrote:Also, I'll be pleased to know your thoughts about "non-veteran" league :idea:

I think you should start it ASAP!
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Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:17 am

NickyNick wrote:I've got idea. How about of playing level sets (2-4 levels, that don't have special rules) in B and playing one "special rules" level in C? It will be very very interesting and more challenging than now :D Of course, there will be a bit more work for B hosts, but I don't think that it will be very hard for them :wink:


I think the B league should be allowed to be just a single hard level. A lot of the best B levels have been along this line.

Currently the B level 'extra requirements' are:

- You may add additional rules, but try to keep them simple enough to be described in, say, 3 sentences. And not run-on ones like I'm prone to writing Wink
- You may meddle with the level file in any way you wish, as long as you test it well
- One contest may consist of more than one level. This fits into the naming scheme by just varying the [YourNameForTheLevel] part.
- Levels should be solvable in 3 hours by regular contestants (higher level of experience compared to the normal players above).


I suggest changing the first requirement to:

- No special per-level rules regarding scoring or non-destruction of components. The cheapest (legal, see contest rules) solution wins.


and leaving the others as-is.
Here is my suggested C contest 'extra requirements: (the bit at the end about light and dark medals is a bit contentious - what are your thoughts?)

- Can have any level of difficulty. As easy as an "A" or harder than a "B".
- Must have special rules of some kind. No "standard rules apply". eg: "quickest wins", "the armadillo must pass through all of the hoops" or "exactly four rubbers, two ropes and one elastic should be used".
- The special rules for scoring must be objectively verifiable, and not a matter of personal opinion. Eg: "Most ingenious solution wins" is not allowed (those rules should be kept for the Design Competitions).
- If the rules include special winning conditions, Light and dark medals are awarded with respect to these new conditions; the best light solution will win the light medal, and the best dark solution will win a dark medal if it is 'better' than the best light solution. Note: Any 'dark' constructions which the special rules say you must have in your solutions are considered OK and do not make your solution dark. Eg: if the rules say you need to use a force paddle, then using 1 is still light, but using 2 would be dark. Conversely, the competition host might decide that some constructions (eg: rocket sacks) count as dark for that competition.





------------------------------

Third, competitions will be hosted by more experienced players like contest legends (and dudio, of course :D)

hahahahahahahahaha! Point taken :P
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Postby snowlord » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:15 am

dudiobugtron wrote:Here is my suggested C contest 'extra requirements: (the bit at the end about light and dark medals is a bit contentious - what are your thoughts?)

- Can have any level of difficulty. As easy as an "A" or harder than a "B".
- Must have special rules of some kind. No "standard rules apply". eg: "quickest wins", "the armadillo must pass through all of the hoops" or "exactly four rubbers, two ropes and one elastic should be used".
- The special rules for scoring must be objectively verifiable, and not a matter of personal opinion. Eg: "Most ingenious solution wins" is not allowed (those rules should be kept for the Design Competitions).
- If the rules include special winning conditions, Light and dark medals are awarded with respect to these new conditions; the best light solution will win the light medal, and the best dark solution will win a dark medal if it is 'better' than the best light solution. Note: Any 'dark' constructions which the special rules say you must have in your solutions are considered OK and do not make your solution dark. Eg: if the rules say you need to use a force paddle, then using 1 is still light, but using 2 would be dark. Conversely, the competition host might decide that some constructions (eg: rocket sacks) count as dark for that competition.

I think it's very good, with the only exception being that I think that only force should award dark medals. That's just my opinion. :)
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Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:55 pm

snowlord wrote:
dudiobugtron wrote:Here is my suggested C contest 'extra requirements: (the bit at the end about light and dark medals is a bit contentious - what are your thoughts?)

- Can have any level of difficulty. As easy as an "A" or harder than a "B".
- Must have special rules of some kind. No "standard rules apply". eg: "quickest wins", "the armadillo must pass through all of the hoops" or "exactly four rubbers, two ropes and one elastic should be used".
- The special rules for scoring must be objectively verifiable, and not a matter of personal opinion. Eg: "Most ingenious solution wins" is not allowed (those rules should be kept for the Design Competitions).
- If the rules include special winning conditions, Light and dark medals are awarded with respect to these new conditions; the best light solution will win the light medal, and the best dark solution will win a dark medal if it is 'better' than the best light solution. Note: Any 'dark' constructions which the special rules say you must have in your solutions are considered OK and do not make your solution dark. Eg: if the rules say you need to use a force paddle, then using 1 is still light, but using 2 would be dark. Conversely, the competition host might decide that some constructions (eg: rocket sacks) count as dark for that competition.

I think it's very good, with the only exception being that I think that only force should award dark medals. That's just my opinion. :)


Interesting, because your initial draft had 'only dark solutions' as one of the possible special rules.

How about this then:

- If the rules include special winning conditions, Light and dark medals are awarded with respect to these new conditions; the best light solution will win the light medal, and the best dark solution will win a dark medal if it is 'better' than the best light solution.
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Postby snowlord » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:39 am

dudiobugtron wrote:Interesting, because your initial draft had 'only dark solutions' as one of the possible special rules.

I think I can not write so anyone understands... :(

I just mean that non-force stuff, like rockets or whatever, should not count as dark....

But the opposite, if a rule calls for force constructions, could and should count as light.
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Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:51 pm

ok, here is the updated draft:

- Can have any level of difficulty. As easy as an "A" or harder than a "B".
- Must have special rules of some kind. No "standard rules apply". eg: "quickest wins", "the armadillo must pass through all of the hoops" or "exactly four rubbers, two ropes and one elastic should be used".
- The special rules for scoring must be objectively verifiable, and not a matter of personal opinion. Eg: "Most ingenious solution wins" is not allowed (those rules should be kept for the Design Competitions).
- If the rules include special winning conditions, Light and dark medals are awarded with respect to these new conditions; the best light solution will win the light medal, and the best dark solution will win a dark medal if it is 'better' than the best light solution. Note: Any 'dark' constructions which the special rules say you must have in your solutions are considered OK and do not make your solution dark. Eg: if the rules say you need to use a force paddle, then using 1 is still light, but using 2 would be dark.


I think this one is the best too :D
Last edited by dudiobugtron on Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby snowlord » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:04 pm

Yes, I agree, dudio!

Btw, I think your avatar is really scary.
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Postby NickyNick » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:01 pm

I think "C" League rules are really good. Hooray! :D

Also, I gonna start "non-veteran" League from the next monday. I propose to use letter "N" for it. Let's settle with the rules. Here is my draft:

- general rules are match with "A" and "B" Leagues rules
- duration of "N" League competitions - one week
- the levels must be easy as in "A" League or easier
- in contest can participate each player, who have 2 or less medals (people who are not Contest Veterans or higher)
- during competition, Contest Veterans, Legends and Lords can send to current host a level for next "N" League competition. After the deadline, current host decides, who from them will make the next competition

p.s. cool avatar dudio! :D
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Postby dudiobugtron » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:20 am

Hooray for the Newbie League!

One change I would make - I think the next host should be allowed to make a level if they want to! But they should also be allowed to have someone else make it for them if they want.


p.s. cool avatar dudio!

Thanks!!! :D :D Actually I think yours is pretty awesome too =P Certainly very unique!

Also thanks to Snowlord, kinda :wink:
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Postby NickyNick » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:40 pm

dudiobugtron wrote:One change I would make - I think the next host should be allowed to make a level if they want to! But they should also be allowed to have someone else make it for them if they want.

sorry... didn't understand :oops: my English sucks :D

dudiobugtron wrote:Actually I think yours is pretty awesome too =P Certainly very unique!

Thanks :D
I've made this character for my 3D game - Table Tennis simulator. His name is Pepper :D
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Postby dudiobugtron » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:23 pm

NickyNick wrote:
dudiobugtron wrote:One change I would make - I think the next host should be allowed to make a level if they want to! But they should also be allowed to have someone else make it for them if they want.

sorry... didn't understand :oops: my English sucks :D


OK, I will try a different way.

You said:

- during competition, Contest Veterans, Legends and Lords can send to current host a level for next "N" League competition. After the deadline, current host decides, who from them will make the next competition

I think we should delete this line, or change it. I think the person who wins the challenge should be the person who chooses the next level. I do not think the current host should choose.
Also, I think that the person who wins the challenge should be able to host their own level if they want to.


PS: do you have a link to your table-tennis game? I went to your website but I can't read Russian :cry: :D
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Postby NickyNick » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:43 pm

Ok. Sorry for my language stupidity :D

You are right. So, let's modify this line. I just thought that it can be difficult to AR novice to make a playable level... Maybe, it'll be better to allow unexperienced players to practise in level creating too :D

So:
- general rules are match with "A" and "B" Leagues rules
- duration of "N" League competitions - one week
- the levels must be easy as in "A" League or easier
- in contest can participate each player, who have 2 or less medals (people who are not Contest Veterans or higher)
- the winner of contest becomes the host of next. He also can use the level made by somebody who is Contest Veteran or higher


About my game... There aren't any link on my website to it. I'll translate it to English in several days and then send it you, ok? :D
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Postby dudiobugtron » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:51 pm

NickyNick wrote:So:
- general rules are match with "A" and "B" Leagues rules
- duration of "N" League competitions - one week
- the levels must be easy as in "A" League or easier
- in contest can participate each player, who have 2 or less medals (people who are not Contest Veterans or higher)
- the winner of contest becomes the host of next. He also can use the level made by somebody who is Contest Veteran or higher


I am very happy with this :D

You should PM or email PeterT about it to see if he is happy to set up a new forum and medals for it - he can do it at the same time as the C competition.
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Postby snowlord » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:54 pm

dudiobugtron wrote:
NickyNick wrote:So:
- general rules are match with "A" and "B" Leagues rules
- duration of "N" League competitions - one week
- the levels must be easy as in "A" League or easier
- in contest can participate each player, who have 2 or less medals (people who are not Contest Veterans or higher)
- the winner of contest becomes the host of next. He also can use the level made by somebody who is Contest Veteran or higher


I am very happy with this :D

You should PM or email PeterT about it to see if he is happy to set up a new forum and medals for it - he can do it at the same time as the C competition.

I emailed him about the C comp, but I've gotten no response...
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Postby PeterT » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:42 pm

snowlord wrote:I emailed him about the C comp, but I've gotten no response...
Sorry about that, I was otherwise engaged the last few days. I'll set up the new forums shortly. Once it gets relevant I'll also update the medal-counting / title-awarding scripts.
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