New Medal Proposition

[McGinge]

OK.... Here is my proposition for a new type of medal to be awarded...

Basically, even my N contest is the first I've hosted, I've recieved some mind boggilingly creative solutions! I propose that a new type of medal that is given in situations where the contest creator feels that a solution is an exceptional piece of armadillo run work, even if it hasnt won the contest. I feel this should not be compulsory, and should only be given to people that really have surpassed expectations with their genius!!

I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on the matter, and especially the moderators to see if they can create a new type of medal; maybe similar to the design contest level medals...

[NickyNick]

Well, it is really very nice idea. Of course, creativity medal shouldn't be in the same row with classic light & dark medals, because choice of the most "creative" solution is subjective. But, it will be very nice to have such type of medals, because it will stimulate people in making solutions "for fun", which are always very amusing

[McGinge]

My thoughts exactly!! I think that it would bring back the whole point of Armadillo Run; players would be motivated to produce quirky odd solutions rather than tweaking $2 out of a solution for in as many hours!! Glad to see the poll is on my side!!!

[McGinge]

Also, can I have some answers from whoever created the medal and PeterT to see if it would practical and a viable option to pursue this. I understand that this would make more work, but it would mean that people would start to create amazing solutions for the levels and not have to worry about cost !!

[JustcallmeDrago]

ooh, i like this...

and bump

[Ikerous]

One problem I see with a creative medal is cheating. If everytime i host i give the creative medal to Nicky, and everytime nicky hosts he gives the creative level to me, then a simple arrangement leads to both of us having way more medals than we deserve. And with light and dark medals theres no disputing who deserves them. Whereas with the creative medal its given to whomever the host wants to (Which has potential to be whoever the host likes the most). What I'm saying is theres potential for a lot of other factors to play into who gets the medal other than who did the best job. This isn't a problem for light and dark medals since we have specific criteria for those.

I think the "Design Contest" is good at awarding creativity without the subjective nature. In the design contests the host doesn't decide who gets the medal, we do. We vote on it and whoever gets the most votes wins. I think this is a much better way to ensure fairness in awarding medals for creativity.

That said the Design Contest forum sucks. A lot. I think theres been a total of six competitions since the forum was opened. I think we need to consider a better way of running the design contests that makes them more like the other leagues. Such as one week of tweaking, followed by one week of voting, and then it starts over.

[NickyNick]

One problem I see with a creative medal is cheating. If everytime i host i give the creative medal to Nicky, and everytime nicky hosts he gives the creative level to me, then a simple arrangement leads to both of us having way more medals than we deserve. And with light and dark medals theres no disputing who deserves them. Whereas with the creative medal its given to whomever the host wants to (Which has potential to be whoever the host likes the most). What I'm saying is theres potential for a lot of other factors to play into who gets the medal other than who did the best job. This isn't a problem for light and dark medals since we have specific criteria for those.

I think the "Design Contest" is good at awarding creativity without the subjective nature. In the design contests the host doesn't decide who gets the medal, we do. We vote on it and whoever gets the most votes wins. I think this is a much better way to ensure fairness in awarding medals for creativity.

That said the Design Contest forum sucks. A lot. I think theres been a total of six competitions since the forum was opened. I think we need to consider a better way of running the design contests that makes them more like the other leagues. Such as one week of tweaking, followed by one week of voting, and then it starts over.

You absolutely fit with my thoughts Ike!!!
I want Design Contest to run much more often too. Let's think about it, it is the best way for awarding "Creativity medals".

[Ikerous]

You absolutely fit with my thoughts Ike!!!
I want Design Contest to run much more often too. Let's think about it, it is the best way for awarding "Creativity medals".

Yeah, I've been meaning to comment on this thread for a while but couldn't really articulate it quite right.

Perhaps someone will make a thread in Contest Discussion so we can talk about altering the Design Contest rules a little.
Although there isn't really any rule that says design contests have to be sooo long. Since you're next up to host you could try changing how we look at the Design contests when you set the rules for the new competition.

[McGinge]

Firstly, design contests are way too long and boring imo!! Also,Ike, if you and Nick gave creative medals to each other every time even if the solutions werent creative at all then people wouuld ask qns from the beginning!!!

[Ikerous]

Firstly, design contests are way too long and boring imo!! Also,Ike, if you and Nick gave creative medals to each other every time even if the solutions werent creative at all then people wouuld ask qns from the beginning!!!

Personally if I were hosting the next Design Contest, I'd make a regular level like in A or B league and then just tell everyone to complete the level in the most creative way they can. Have it end in one week. Then have voting for one week. Then it'd end.

And if we were going to switch off giving medals we'd at least try to submit somewhat creative solutions just so it didn't look rigged. And besides, theres nothing anyone could really do about it since the medal would be so subjective.

[JustcallmeDrago]

Firstly, design contests are way too long and boring imo!! Also,Ike, if you and Nick gave creative medals to each other every time even if the solutions werent creative at all then people wouuld ask qns from the beginning!!!

Personally if I were hosting the next Design Contest, I'd make a regular level like in A or B league and then just tell everyone to complete the level in the most creative way they can. Have it end in one week. Then have voting for one week. Then it'd end.

And if we were going to switch off giving medals we'd at least try to submit somewhat creative solutions just so it didn't look rigged. And besides, theres nothing anyone could really do about it since the medal would be so subjective.

Yes, the design contests are too long for me too. I propose there be two design contests running at the same time, one in the tweaking phase and one in the voting phase so you can always be working on a level. If there is only one, like there is now, there will always be a week or so that you can't work on a design competition level.

Besides, there are 4 general contests in the tweaking stage almost round the clock. That equals more participation. If one level doesn't suit you, you can focus on another one; I don't get the current A, B, and C contests , but I've already sent in a light N entry and working on the dark side. With the current design contest, if you don't like the current challenge, you'll just have to wait until it ends, gets voted on, and another one starts again, which can take a long time (Especially if the new host [NickyNick!!] wont put up the new contest "ASAP").

Even though there are 4 general contests for every design contest (more like 8 to 1, considering how long it takes to start another design contest) the design contest gets waaaay less attention than it should. Check these stats:

* Here I consider the design contest a ?league?
** Dates are in MM-DD-YY Format
*** Stats as of 7-10-07

Breakdown of topics and posts from each league?s forum
League Forum___Topics_____% of Topics________Posts______% of Posts
N________________33____________9.2_________579____________7.9
A_______________186___________51.7________3,933__________ 53.9
B________________89___________24.7________1,870__________ 25.6
C________________30____________8.3_________602____________8.3
Dsgn._____________22____________6.1_________308____________4.2
Total____________360_____________________________________7,292

Breakdown of # of leagues and average length of each contest
League_____# of Contests_____% of Contests_____1st Contest Date_____Days Running_____Average Length
N___________________16_____________9.2_____________2-26-07____________135___________8.4 days
A___________________93____________53.4______________8-9-06____________335___________3.6 days
B___________________44____________25.2_____________8-14-06____________330___________7.5 days
C___________________15_____________8.6_____________2-18-07____________142___________9.5 days
Dsgn._________________6_____________3.4______________9-7-06____________306__________51.0 days

Amazing what you can collect by looking around the forums! Anyway, It?s obvious that leagues A & B dominate with more than 3/4 of anything contest related being about them. I think this is a big problem. The people posting in these forums are probably not all that new. They are the ?pros?: doing the impossible, and cheaply. I believe this has created a deficiency in the newbie population. Since the pros are the best and 3/4 of the contests are A & B (geared toward them), I think it?s hard for the new guys to catch up, and they?re probably frustratedly thinking ?I can?t win any contests, this isn?t so fun ? or ?Ok, now that I?ve won 3 N-leaguers, I can?t win any more because these pros are too good. This isn?t so fun any more ?. So, to increase the amount of newbies active on the forums and in competitions, there needs to be more contests geared toward them. The N-league is a good start. I like the idea of excluding ?contest veterans?, and I think there should also be a ?first-timer? league, where only contestants who have not won any medals can participate, and an intermediate league, where only contest veterans and under can participate (no armadillo lords and higher). This intermediate league seems like what the current A-league should be like now. It has easier levels than B-league but harder levels than N. The problem is, it seems inaccessible to ?intermediate? players because the pros can still play!

Summary:
Have more leagues
Have more experience requirements

Now, back to my original point: the design contest. I think the design contest was way too long, had too much down time, and the themes weren?t interesting enough. In my opinion, the design contest was/is a great idea! It just wasn?t well excecuted. It was unorganized at the beginning and pretty much stayed that way. We have to have better guidelines to follow. McGinge, you brought up the point that the contests were very, very long (51 days on average, according to my handy dandy tables). That is a fact! There should be a set timeframe, or a maximum length at least. Problem solved. Ikerous, you said that if you were hosting the next design contest, you?d make a normal ?A or B? level and say ?be creative!?...

AAAA!!! No! Please No!

I don?t agree. I believe the design contests should have a theme and you should build a level around that idea. Matacus 6's Pinball theme is a perfect example! If you had to host a contest and you made a level and said ?be creative?, I think that you should be hosting a totally different league?s contest. Maybe a ?Creative solutions? contest? Design contests are not for pre-made levels! That is why I think Matacus 1's theme was bad. It was ?pac man?, but it was an already made level that you had to finish and also bump the most metal plates. That sounds to me like a C-league contest!

Onto my final point. There needs to be a new layout. The old one is kind of messy. Here?s my idea:

General Contests (In order):

A-League (a.k.a. Old B-League): The best of the best compete here. Anyone can compete, but this is the toughest competition to win.

B-League (a.k.a. Old A-League): This is where the intermediate players compete. Anyone who is a contest veteran or lower can compete, so you have a better chance of winning if you aren?t godly.

C-League (a.k.a. Old N-League): Players who have won only 1 or 2 competitions can compete here. No contest veterans or higher are allowed.

D-League or N-League: Players who have dabbled in the ways of the armadillo but haven?t won a competition yet can compete here.


Creativity Contests (Not necessarily in order): I think there should be 2 of each of these, because there is always voting.

Creative Solutions Contest (a.k.a. Old C-League): Here, money is not generally a concern. Players compete to solve a level with the most creativity.

Design Contest: Players must build a level on their own that has a theme, which is picked by the host. Money? Hah!


Other Contests: Maybe a good idea, maybe not?

Speed Contest: I know this isn?t my original idea, but I like it. Players have only a limited time to solve and complete a level, usually a few hours to a day, under the same rules as the general contests.


I hope my proposal wasn?t too arduous to read
Anyway, I hope this will sway some people!

[McGinge]

WOW!!! How long did that take u to write!! I'm gonna address your points one by one!

Well one of your points seem to be that the N contests should be more exclusive. I like your idea about making it exclusive, although if you did for someone with no medals then it will soon run out of contestants!!! Maybe with people with just one medal would be more ideal!

Also, I think Ike's ideas is extremely good, and Drago's is also good regarding design contests. However, even though I think a design contest and creative solution contest are great ideas, I think other forum users would get tired of the 10 different types of contest!!

Anyway great AR commitment Drago!!

[NickyNick]

Well, personally I think that we have already done all what we could to make life of newbies easier. Each new player can taste ARFC in N league contests. If he would like it - he will participate in A,B & C contests when he won 3 medals in N, if not - then he won't play contests anymore. Contests have no sense if they are not competitive, and it is normally when we have skilled players playing against newbies.
I think that making more newbie contests isn't a solution. If we will have 3 "newbie" leagues, it will spread all entries, and we will have 3 leagues will low popularity instead of one with high. Most of people here haven't much time to participate in 3-4 contests each week, so I think that creating new leagues has no sense.
I think that N league ATM is the most popular. We can see some new and creative players "from" N league, who have gained good level of skill there (Overlord, Gamma57, McGinge, FF etc.). It is not time to change something now, because "more" doesn't mean "better".
I like idea of two "classic" (with rules like in Matacus 1-6) Design Contests running at the same time - when first is running, there's voting period in second, and vice versa. I think that the best time duration for Matacus Contest is 2 weeks, and 2 weeks more for voting.
Well... here are my thoughts about this stuff

[McGinge]

yeah i agree with nick about the low popularity if there are many different contests!! However i think something should be done at least, maybe nothing as drastic, but still something to encourage more creative solutions.

[NickyNick]

First time I read this I liked Creativity idea very much but I can see some problems with it (Ike has said about them very nicely). We can just begin making "solutions for fun", without any medals (like it was in old contests - I remember nice player called n.fav, who always created amusing solutions).