New Medal Proposition

[NickyNick]

Hello from the dusty Ukraine! I'm back.
Well, I have read a part of this discussion, and here's what I thought about. I'm against of Creativity Medals. It will produce a lot of messy solutions. The truly creative solution is cheap and elegant one, so we don't need another one stupid medal for stimulus.

[jimbojetuk]

that isnt true IMO. Look at some of the level solutions on the armadillorun.com website.some are just tweak after tweak.but some are random ones out of the blue that make you think 'wow thats really good how it works'. Thats what a creativity medal is about i think.

[NickyNick]

Haha. Creativity Medal will make people invent these f*cking expensive "creative" contraptions. But it isn't really interesting to see loads of such things. The most creative solution is the cheapest, because you should think most of all to figure out the concept for cheap solution. And there's no room for tweaking other's solutions at ARFC, because Clans are prohibited and we are on our own. That's my opinion.

[JustcallmeDrago]

Haha. Creativity Medal will make people invent these f*cking expensive "creative" contraptions. But it isn't really interesting to see loads of such things. The most creative solution is the cheapest, because you should think most of all to figure out the concept for cheap solution. And there's no room for tweaking other's solutions at ARFC, because Clans are prohibited and we are on our own. That's my opinion.

Well nick, welcome back. I thought you retired.

Who does think to create a cheap solution? It's not hip.

But Ikerous once said "this game is 80% recognition". Recognizing and then learning how to simply apply something you've already seen (bar pullies, small catchers, impulse launchers, force paddles, that thing where you put one metal sheet that slowly falls and affects dillos trajectory) then tweaking the snot out of it and Making a creative solution have begun to be very different things. It's time for change. N.fav and the novelty (and sheer number of participants) of classic contests has been pretty much lost due to time. Where is the creativity now if you can make a "perfect solution"?! Looking at a level and knowing a "perfect solution" in the first minute isn't using much creativity. That's just recognition.

If in order to win a level you have to find some amazing, creative, incredibly-cheap way, you should win a creativity medal. But the most creative solution is winning less and less. The person who can win with creativity the most recently is unw with his rockets.

Another thing is the level. Sometimes you've seen something similar, and the level wasn't designed well enough to have some brilliant solution. You simply plug in what you've seen, maybe in a different combintation, and tweak away for a medal. This causes many redundant (boring, and not creative looking after you see 5 of the same thing) solutions that all come within $4 of eachother.

The flaws of a level are quickly found, especially with score posting. Remember your "store your ass level?" everyone said "what???!!" when somebody posted a xx90 score, then the results had 4 or 5 of the same winning solution that used a single metal bar to get armadillo all the way to the goal? You called that a "stupid level". I think it is a great level. It's so creative! I would've made some cool crane thing that picked dillo up then set him back down at the portal. Wouldn't you like to see that instead of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th winning solution? I'd like to see how many contests ended up with the runner up just $4 or less behind the winner.


I believe you can't always be most creative and win with the same solution. There are levels you can do that on, but they are becoming fewer and fewer. Not every host can make a level that makes sure you cant win with something we've seen before.

Solutions can be the best and the most creative, but they're not often.

Yep :/ Same. I think 9759 is perfect unless someone can tweak 9779 without it breaking.

This is from the current contest. Looks like we've got some creativity, huh?

And about the "f*cking expensive" creative solutions, make us have to come up with some "f*cking creative" cheap solutions and there won't be as many expensive ones. We'll be spending too much creativity on making the best solution possible. Until then, you're stuck with a few of them.

[NickyNick]

Well. There's a point in your post about boring pattern repetition. But, let's look from another side. Experienced players (you, me, Ikerous, JonathanF etc.) can really think something like "Oh, I'm tired with all these metal bar pulleys". But, when a newbie sees a pulley at first time, he thinks something like "Oh, it is genious!". It happened with me, and I'm sure that it happened with you too.

So, the conclusion is: all these patterns look boring for us just because we have seen all of them a lot. In fact, our basic patterns are really very "creative". Huh, I'm tired with this word. It sounds a bit weirdly.

[NickyNick]

And another point. I don't remember, has it been spoken here before or no, so here it is.

"Creativity Medal" awarding will give host too much power. First, choice of the "most creative solution" is very subjective. Second, I'm sure that there will be "friend" problem. For example, Drago will always/often give Creativity Medal to McGinge, and vice versa.

So, unlike to impartial winner determination by score, the "Creativity Medal" awarding will be really very subjective. IMO.

[JustcallmeDrago]

How about this:

"Poop"

Everyone under six (or 12, as I seen a few times ): LOL

Everyone older: ...

Newbs will learn. I've learned. Quick. I'm sure I've thought "poop" was funny and creative. I don't know why now . But I learned it's all been done before. How many times have you heard "Why did the chicken cross the road?"? Many for me. And unless someone comes up with some brilliant answer, I don't find it funny.

Us "experienced" players (I would use seasoned; I've never gotten a force paddle to work well and I've never made a bar pulley) are tired of it and I'm sure newbs will too once the novelty of contests wears off. It happened too me way faster because I can't keep up with you guys. I can "see" how a level will be done, I just can't do it. And it's not my creativity stopping me.

[JustcallmeDrago]

Didn't see your 2nd post:
The host will have too much power until a mod steps in. I've made a few posts about this (I thought you read this!) and I've come to the conclusion that:

Most hosts are trustworthy
If they're not, it should be easy to tell a different solution is more creative.
If they are very close, how many times can that happen?
If it does happen a lot, how many times can it happen with that host?
If it happen does happen a lot with that host, there are mods who can step in.
If a mod is untrustworthy, it's just a game!!

[NickyNick]

Didn't see your 2nd post:
The host will have too much power until a mod steps in. I've made a few posts about this (I thought you read this!) and I've come to the conclusion that:

Most hosts are trustworthy
If they're not, it should be easy to tell a different solution is more creative.
If they are very close, how many times can that happen?
If it does happen a lot, how many times can it happen with that host?
If it happen does happen a lot with that host, there are mods who can step in.
If a mod is untrustworthy, it's just a game!!

It isn't an argument. We all won't be able to detect "cheating" in Creativity Medal awarding. What does mean "trustworthy"? It isn't word for this situation. Here is simple example. Let's assume, that I've received two good, "creative" solutions with different concepts - one from Jonathan, second from somebody. Of course, I'll be glad to do a favour to my friend Jon and award a medal to him. It isn't cheating - somebody will like first solution, somebody will like second. It is just matter of taste.

[McGinge]

And another point. I don't remember, has it been spoken here before or no, so here it is.

"Creativity Medal" awarding will give host too much power. First, choice of the "most creative solution" is very subjective. Second, I'm sure that there will be "friend" problem. For example, Drago will always/often give Creativity Medal to McGinge, and vice versa.

So, unlike to impartial winner determination by score, the "Creativity Medal" awarding will be really very subjective. IMO.

Ok i've missed most of this convo so im gonna just start from here!

Nick, if Drago makes a sh*t rocket based mishmash solution and sends it to me and i give it a creativity medal because we're in cahoots, its not fair is it. I mean really; are any of us low enough and sad enought to try and cheat a virtual award from anyone else???

And I kinda think people are missing the point of my suggestion; I've said this soooo many times before, but tweaking $2 out of a solution to get the best force paddle is NOT cool! For example, Nick you are one of the most creative solvers I've ever seen! 2 recent levels have left me awestruck...

1) I think it was JohnF's space invaders thing

Dude everyone tried to go right round the outside thinking its the only way, but you got some metal and just ploughed straight the middle. You thought laterally. I loved it. I even laughed at everyone elses ignorance of this simple solution. And it won! Im not even gonna mention the C word !

2) JohnF's Deathly Hallows

Virtually everyone else (including me) went for either a classic dark or attempted to get enough speed to swing the dillo round the gap into the portal. You went for a quite frankly mindblowing solution by using most of the level as a basis for what I think is called a pully but im not sure... Again, I was just blown away, and it won!

This is what I was thinking of when suggesting the new medal! Not building huge crane contraptions in order to complete a 2 cm gap, but to be rewarded for thinking laterally when often people arent rewarded. Bringing back the fun and originality of when we first bought the game and thought "wow"! I'm still amazed by this game, and I've owned it for about a year.

Surely you can see Nick that what I'm suggesting will have some benefit for competitions. No offence to FringD for his B contest level, but Im in no doubt that bar pulleys will litter the entries for his current competition. Although novel, I'm trying to get away from that and entice newb's fresh minds into making amazing solutions without ubertweaking.

Even if you dont like it, whats wrong with it being passed?? Fair enough, when you host, just dont give it away if you dont like it; its your decision. Its not gonna throw the forum into disarray if its passed, so therefore I stick to my guns dude!!

[JustcallmeDrago]

Nick, if Drago makes a sh*t rocket based mishmash solution and sends it to me and i give it a creativity medal because we're in cahoots, its not fair is it. I mean really; are any of us low enough and sad enought to try and cheat a virtual award from anyone else???

[... blah blah blah ...]

2) JohnF's Deathly Hallows

[... blah blah red hair blah ...]

I stick to my guns dude!!

1. I agree; how many hosts are low enough to cheat like that. They created a great cheap solution, then hosted. Now they're going to do that? Doubt it. McGinge's example would be the case of easily telling if someone cheated because one solution was crap and it got the medal. If there is the cheating of the other type (freinds in cahoots giving medals to eachother when solutions are almost equally creative) people would start to suspect those two and if they were hosting and came across 2 great creative solutions that were almost equal, I'm sure they could easily pick the one not made by one of the "friends".

Plus what is the likelyhood of two people both being that low? It'd be more like

"Hey, friend, let's give eachother medals!"
"No! That's cheating! I'm not your friend anymore [, you lowlife scumsucking ^%*&^*!!!!]!"

I seriously doubt the likelihood of cheating to happen, let alone work.

2. I have to check out deathly hallows!!! sounds good!

3. Obviously, I'm sticking to my guns too. Thanks for backing me up! Er, thanks for being someone I can back up! yeah.

EDIT: I don't even know how I missed deathly hallows, but I know I would never have thought of the "pully" idea. Another great solution there was wolter's, which is hard to comprehend because he uses an alternating rope-cloth bridge that uses the first cloth to lift the dillo up, then dillo drops into the first gap, then he's lifted up by THAT and once again dropped into the second cloth, and then the second gap, then the pulley falls and pops the dillo into the portal. Wow.

I think wolter's is better, even though his lost! and just by $4!!

And no! I'm not mad at you or anything, nick! If you guys came up with the opposite solutions, I would still vote for the cloth-rope bridge one.

[McGinge]

Yeah dude! Incidentally you fancy a creativity medal?? I got some spare ones lying round for people I'm apparently in cahoots with...


(No offence Nick; its for comic effect!)

[NickyNick]

Ok. I've said what I thought, and it looks like that subsequent discussion is useless. The only thing I hope, that we will not turn this game to circus by passing Creativity Medals.

[TSchultz]

What if the medal had to be approved by a mod? I think that'd be fair since you are all against it, and therefore one would only be awarded with REALLY creative solutions. Also, I think Matacus should count as more than 2 (possibly).

[McGinge]

Ok. I've said what I thought, and it looks like that subsequent discussion is useless. The only thing I hope, that we will not turn this game to circus by passing Creativity Medals.

Dude listen to TSchultz's idea, its quite good! Although if none of the current moderators want to do it I would be happy to step in...