Airships

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Airships

Postby Comassion » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:19 pm

I want to make a series of levels based on 'airships'. I have several ideas for how to make the levels, but my early attempts at building the airships have all failed.

The primary problem is instability - even with simple designs, I've found that the airship eventually destabilizes and falls. I'm naturally using rockets to hold them aloft. Some of my more elaborate attempts have brought to mind the videos of the early attempts at making the first airplane - along with the associated crashing and destruction.

So, since I only bought the game this weekend, I figure my building skills just aren't up to snuff. I've come here to ask you more experienced builders for assistance in creating airships.

To define them, an airship is a free-standing structure (no hardpoints) that can remain airborne indefinitely even after being bumped by a small force, say a tap from a falling metal plate. Ideally the airship will also remain in the vicinity of the level as well.

I've been using rockets so far, but if someone wants to somehow use the force to keep their ships aloft I don't have a problem with it (though non-force airships are preferable).

Good luck, and I'd like to thank anyone out there who wants to take the time to help me with this.
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Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:12 pm

The problem is that once the rockets change orientation slightly, the direction they are pushing in changes too.

In Real life, Flying machines work by having 'lighter than air' components, or by using 'wings' to disturb the air appropriately. Since there is no Air in AR, manouvering in AR is much more like manouvering in space

In space, to get the correct mvoements there they have lots of tiny 'rockets' which they can control (ie: make stop and start) using a computer. Since AR Rockets are always on, this can't work either.
In real life when people use un-stoppable rockets to propel their various creations (eg: their car) it usually ends up much like you have experienced with your airship prototypes here!!!


The only thing I can think of which might work, would be to creat some sort of shifting weight, which moved to oppose rotation - eg, if the airship started tilting left, it moved to the right to counterbalance it, then when it re-aligned the weight moved back to the centre. I can't see how this might be built though!!
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Postby seanarmadillo » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:53 am

if your really clever you can make a sort of orientation rocket , iv experimented with it some but its very heard to get right, , what im talking about is rockets on the ship that ar hung in place in the wright way that they always are facing upwards, so if the craft tilts they are still facing upwards to correct the tilt, i havnt be able to do it efficently yet, but its worth a try
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Postby ?rjan Flatseth » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:49 pm

Well. It works. It looks more like a rocket than a ship though. There are som interesting theories here. I found some problems with a coonterweight or - a coundterweight-controlled stearing-rocket. Perhaps the difference in "air-resistance in cloth and metal could be used in some way here
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Postby wParam » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:47 pm

Here's my attempt at it. This level had lots of failed designs which I removed, that's why it's rather large. The thing is fairly stable for small impacts, though anything you hit it with tends to make it move. They rock back and forth for a bit but usually settle back down. Of course, by the time they settle, they've usually gone past the end of the level and dropped the ball.

The amount of thrust to apply is the main problem, though. You can tweak it to get it to stay roughly still, but once something lands on it for transport, it's going to start to sink.

I tried lots of fun contraptions to get something that holds its horizontal position, but everything I tried just caused the ship to roll over and crash.
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Attempt at no hard points airships
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Postby Drone_Fragger » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:49 am

Tried to make a stabiling airship using the armadillo as the roller, the armadillos inertia acting as the force to move the armadillo left or right (ie, armadillo moves left when the airship moves right)
It sorta works.
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Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:26 am

wParam wrote:The amount of thrust to apply is the main problem, though. You can tweak it to get it to stay roughly still, but once something lands on it for transport, it's going to start to sink.

This can be fixed by removing some 'balast' when the thing you want to transport lands on the airship. You can use timers or a trigger-style setup so that when the cargo gets on board, some other material of similar weight gets off!

If you set the airship up initially to be 'underweight' by the amount the cargo will weigh, this lets players design their own balast system.
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My try

Postby Dark Lord Pickles » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:46 am

This is more of a concept than a finished product but im experimenting with gyroscopic stabilisers but unfortunatly because i can only build along one dimension it probably will never work
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Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:36 pm

That is a very clever idea!!!

Thanks for showing it!!!
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Postby snowlord » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:22 pm

This is more of a concept than a finished product but im experimenting with gyroscopic stabilisers but unfortunatly because i can only build along one dimension it probably will never work

Did you notice that if you remove the rope (in the level editor) and start the level, the airship actually stabilizes after a while? You have to zoom out max to see it because it goes way right first. Very cool!
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Postby Dark Lord Pickles » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:23 pm

thx for telling me that i didnt notice
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Postby Lucktle » Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:38 am

An airship that I made.
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It does land afterwards.
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Re: My try

Postby ?rjan Flatseth » Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Dark Lord Pickles wrote:This is more of a concept than a finished product but im experimenting with gyroscopic stabilisers but unfortunatly because i can only build along one dimension it probably will never work


I think you are right. I belivbe the gyroscopic effect - if it can work in AR - would only help keeping the wheel in the same plane as the screen - which is the only plane in use anyway :wink: I was thinking of gyroscopic stuff my self, but I didnt think of using two wheels - which is closer to interesting but in the end - I guess its not having any effect in AR as the wheels should be laying "flat" - as on a chopper.
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Gyro Rocket

Postby Jonnotantan » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:25 pm

Here's my go. It works on the same principle as Drone-Fragger's airship, except it uses the opposite motion. that is, when the rocket moves too fast right, the 'dillo moves left of the airship, and the directional rocket also pivots left, pushing the airship back up straight. However, the design is not very sturdy at all, so any constructive criticism would be appreciated
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Postby Hyperkubus » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:46 pm

Wow that's working really well! As for not being sturdy, maybe if you make it smaller, it wouldn't be so flexible.
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