Repeating of the original AR2 A League challenges 2015

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Repeating of the original AR2 A League challenges 2015

Postby bytheMod » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:11 pm

One of the bigger problems facing continuation of the AR2 A League was the difficulty in creating "new" (aka "original") challenges.
When there are only a few regular players, the same people have to keep on finding new challenges, which can be a real headache.

But the AR2 A league began in late 2009. That's over 5 years ago. And while there are a few familiar names still around, that were competing way back then as well, it seemed like a good idea to start repeating the original challenges in sequence. The benefits of doing this include:
- solving the creativity problem, with a ready supply of pre-made challenges available.
- it allows the challenge host to compete as well, as they have no greater knowledge of the solution (or how to solve it) than any of the other players. This helps to keep the forum going with minimal numbers.
- it might encourage players with insufficient time to create and/or host the next challenge to compete, because that task is now trivial to pass on to another player.
- this system does not prevent any host from offering their own level creation if they prefer. Subsequent challenges can resume the repeat sequence easily enough.


But there are drawbacks as well....

Not least of which, is relying on an "Honour" system, because it is very easy to download the original challenge results, and copy the winning entry. The game software had not quite settled on the Version 2.1.3 presently in use, so it might require tweaking and/or rebuilding, but anyone good enough to be considering entering a challenge is good enough to do that, so what would be the point?
The main point is, there is no challenge for anyone who does that, so why would anyone want to do it?

The challenge host has to download the original .lvl2 file, and test it to see that it at least still works. That it is not broken by the v2.1.3 software.
Rename the level, to follow the present league number sequence, but maintain enough information to connect it with the original challenge.
There is no need for anyone to look at the Results post for that challenge. Not only could the original solutions be downloaded from there, but seeing the winning scores already taints the challenge with a foreknowledge of what to aim for.


The biggest issue would seem to involve those players who competed in the original challenge. I had hoped that 5 years would be long enough for them to forget, but AR2 players seem to have incredible memories. I do not believe it is fair to exclude or disappoint anyone because they have competed before, but am also uncertain how to keep the competition interesting for them.

One possible solution is to require the host to alter the challenge in some way, to make certain that the old solutions are useless. But this has to be done, without looking at the original results. Because that might still give ideas and taint the ability of the host to compete in the challenge. And there is some danger that the challenge may be broken that way.

By "alter the challenge", I was thinking along the lines of: move a dillo, or a portal, or an anchor. Change prices. Exclude a common material. Remove an anchor that would be useful. Add an obstruction. Things like that.

Another tweak, is to suggest that the host always changes. That if the host wins the challenge they have posted, then the second placed player hosts the next challenge. This is just to spread the hosting workload around a bit.


Lastly, it strikes me that we are all here, solving these challenges, because we like to think and have fun. That it is more about finding and sharing the "cool solutions" than the kudos for winning with the most economical solution. But maybe that's just me.... It's important to hear from all points of view, before we set this process in concrete.

Please add whatever suggestions, comments, or replies you like to this thread.
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Re: Repeating of the original AR2 A League challenges 2015

Postby mark_man » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:39 pm

You did it again all of the above suggestions and advice are fantastic , for me nothing needs to be added or subtracted .Game on .Other suggestions are always welcome :D
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Re: Repeating of the original AR2 A League challenges 2015

Postby bythelee » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:49 am

You're too kind.... :lol:


I had considered whether the host should inspect the bidding for familiar names, and download the results file to see who submitted solutions, and skip over that challenge if it was too "familiar".
Votart, Rob, Ioncorpse are three regulars from back then, that have been present recently as well.

But the odds are:
- that this will make all of them familiar ("regulars" in 2009 were VERY regular)
- it taints the competition for the host as well.
It is quite likely we'd have to skip 9 out of 10 challenges that way. And I got started sometime around number 150, so we'd go from 150 weeks of competition (three years worth) to 15 weeks (four months worth). Hence, it doesn't seem viable to simply skip any familiar challenges.

The "minor alteration" idea appeals on many levels:
- it breaks all chances of "cheating",
- keeps it new and interesting for those that have played it before, and
- makes the old scores meaningless too.
My main fear is the change somehow breaking the challenge, as well as adding some work for the host. Nothing like as much as crafting a new challenge from scratch, but still needing a little thought and creativity.
It feels like a decent compromise, that best suits our situation.

But I'd love to hear what others have to say....


PS: I suggest the naming convention becomes: AR2_A_(newnumber)_(oldnumber)_(oldname)_MOD or suchlike. Suggestions welcome.
The _MOD shows the challenge is altered from the original.
I reckon the (oldname) is optional, because it makes it a bit long with it in, but the (oldnumber) will be more useful for subsequent hosts to work from.
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Re: Repeating of the original AR2 A League challenges 2015

Postby mark_man » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:40 pm

Give an example of what this week naming would look like please
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Re: Repeating of the original AR2 A League challenges 2015

Postby bythelee » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:55 am

If I had actually modified the original level, it would be:

AR2_A_341_003_Cascade_mod


To shorten the name, then:

AR2_A_341_003_mod
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