AR2_A_004_Flipster (Ends 30/09 @ 15:00 GMT)

[markmadras]

520+

[rob]

hm, spent some time with this level. I see what I want to do, it involves some bouncing wich I'm sure is possible but I got pretty frustrated while getting it to bounce just right. I'll try again tonight, if it goes the same I discard the idea and try to solve the level another way.

[V4nKw15h]

I see no need to bounce. If you think I designed it to force you to make tweaktastic bounces you are wrong.

Tip: It's called Flipster for a reason. Flip it.

Flipping the ball is not something we ever did in AR1 because it was too expensive. Here it's the cheapest solution I believe.

Just to be sure it's not super tweaky I just rebuilt my POC to that 850+ V bucket in 3 minutes.

[ioncorpse]

Bounce can give you additional bonus

555+

P.S. Direct translation (online dictionary) of "Flipping" to russian and then back to english returns "Devilish" or "Goddamned"

[V4nKw15h]

Haha, Ioncorpse.

I've just spent 2 minutes trying to explain what I meant by flip, but everytime I tried I basically told you how to do this level cheap. I want to give a tip without giving too much away. There is still nearly 2 days left, but I'd like to get more people moving in the right direction, so...

Here is the best I came up with:
Most of the AR1 launchers flip the dillo off the end of a fast rotating metal plate. In AR1 we used dark force to rotate that plate. Here we can make a metal plate rotate extremely fast (when we need it) using cheap tension and ?????


I still see no real need for a tweaky bounce. I completely rebuilt my POC in 7 minutes with no special bouncing. But I haven't seen your solution yet so I don't know if you have found a bounce that saves money. I assume you mean bouncing it high off an anchor point. I didn't need to do that.

I want to say more but I don't want to give too much away too early. I think I've already said more than I should, but if I can get everyone enjoying the level I think that is the most important thing.

I honestly expected everyone to find this much easier than they have, and I was worried that we would have identical winning solutions. I guess it will take a little longer for everyone to get used to using the cheaper materials and what can be done with them. My POC looks nothing like any winning AR1 solution ever did.

[markmadras]

580++

[ioncorpse]

Maybe I don't use bounce also

If my way is right and cheapest - then the battle will be for last 10-16$, because such POC is simple.

606+

[V4nKw15h]

If my way is right and cheapest - then the battle will be for last 10-16$, because such POC is simple.

Agreed. It's simple to do once you know what to do

[markmadras]

Finished tweaking now, never would have done a solution like this before because it would have been too damm expensive. I had some tweaky bits with a bounce (be nice when that is fixed) and got to the V with the 850+. You just have to use the cheapest material, who needs Dark force when there is a cheap alternative.

630+

[Votart Silak]

Only 620

[V4nKw15h]

Okay, it's the last day on this competition too.

It's nice to see that repricing materials and tension can open up a whole new way of playing the game. It has also spread out the scores massively as everyone trys to work out what is now possible.

This level was designed to force the use of the more unusual materials and tension to get people thinking of using them.
My next level will attempt to balance the pricing of everything so that all materials can be useful, including tension and timers.

I believe timers can be priced as low as $20 in most cases and still not be too cheap. Elastic should be maybe $2-$3 in most levels (Sometimes rope will still be better). Rubber seems good at around $40.

With prices like that, it will open up many more options in nearly every level. I think it's good gameplay for us to have to consider using all materials before deciding what will be the best solution. It makes the game feel fresh again. New things can be invented, and pulleys can be buried forever (woohoo). Not to mention levels can be made much bigger without needing dark forces to launch the ball over big gaps.

[Votart Silak]

I believe timers can be priced as low as $20 in most cases and still not be too cheap. Elastic should be maybe $2-$3 in most levels (Sometimes rope will still be better). Rubber seems good at around $40.

Timers should cost very expensively. I would forbid them absolutely.
Tension should cost expensively too.
The price for a rocket should be nearby $250-300.

[ioncorpse]

IMHO:
Timers <100$ is bad idea.
Tension $ is very dependent on level.
Ellastic is really overcosted.

P.S. 666++

[markmadras]

I think this is good that we have different views on pricing as this is likely to produce plenty of variation in the contests. IMO. The price of timers should be relevant to the level and how it can be solved. I have just made one with four different coloured Dillo's and portals which should be fun to do but very difficult without timers. Timers have always been avoided because of price and the level design took that into account, now you could make a level that has to have timers to be solvable, but the challenge will always be there to find a cheaper alternative as long as the timers are not underpriced. I can see some new trigger designs on the horizon.

686+

[V4nKw15h]

I'm surprised you both think timers should be so expensive.

There are two places on this level where a timer would be useful, but even if the timer was only $20 it's still cheaper to not use one.

Timers can open up completely new ideas. Imagine a timer that launches a metal bar into the air to hit a dillo flying high above it. That type of thing opens up level design and gameplay.

How about a much bigger level than normal that would take hours to tweak manual timers, but is more fun using automatic ones.

Obviously it will depend on the level. Some levels would be ruined by a cheap timer, whereas others will benefit and be more fun by allowing the player to use timers.

If timers are kept at $100, they will never be used. I can't remember ever seeing a timer used in a winning solution in over 2 years. What is the point of having them unless they are priced to sometimes allow a superior solution?