ARFC A 003 Cascade (ends 26/09/09 @ 15:00 GMT)

[V4nKw15h]

Yeah, it's silly to suddenly allow jackhammers and breaking the levels. These obviously need fixing in the engine if we are to finally be able to play AR without a bunch of silly rules like "you can't do this or you can't do that".

I didn't even consider either of these things when I created my first solution. It took me about 3 hours of fine tweaking to do it and I was very pleased with it.

I knew jackhammers were still possible but I never for a moment thought they would be used by anyone. Even though I read Ioncorpses rules it never occured to me anyone would do it. AR2 was designed for light competition.

So considering I'm already standing down from the competition because it's really a competition, I will finish by saying...

2700+ (No jackhammer, no level breaking)
2800+ without a jackhammer but breaking the level (Already darker than we should accept)
2900+ using any means necessary (but I'm not even going to finish this solution because it's ridiculously dark)

[markmadras]

The whole intention at present is to test the AR2 Beta version under contest conditions, that is the best way to uncover the remaining bugs. I attempted to rule out the use of the remaining Dark force in a recent contest but it was quickly pointed out to me that we are more likely to uncover all the bugs if we again abuse the Dark forces but also try to make clean Light solutions.

This approach will allow Peter to produce the Beta2 version with as many bugs removed as possible so we can then repeat the process. When the final version of AR2 is complete it should have no Dark force bugs left in it.

That is why we are still using Dark Force Vankwish, it is simply a transition period. The more players that take part the more likely it is that all the bugs will be discovered so your involvement would be appreciated and it will help to produce a pure Light AR2.

[Votart Silak]

2900+also

[V4nKw15h]

So we knew Jackhammers were still present before this competition started. We knew level breaking was possible before this competition started.

We don't need to retest things we know are already dark and in the engine. Doing that is counter productive to finding "new" bugs.

Sure it's worth testing dark ideas and reporting them, but is it so hard to simply point out you have found a dark bug but not use it to win.

It's frustrating as hell to work on a light solution only to find players abusing age old dark techniques that we knew were still there even before the competition began.

This and stuff is silly. It's still as and as it's ever been. The only difference now is that the competition win is being given to the solution for some reason. He who cheats and abuses the most bugs wins.

[ioncorpse]

V4nKw15h I understand your point and I agree with you.
In previous AR2 A competitions jackhummers were useless, so I forgot about them. They are less powerfull than in AR1, but in THIS level - they allow to make solution faster, easier & without creativity (for 1st part of solution).
Why I add medal? Because it was too late to change rules back, more of players already create good solutions & they don't want to know that they were wasting their time on , when they wonna win

Hoster of next contest will decide, which medals he will use for his contest. <-- I propose that rule, til AR2 release.

[Votart Silak]

V4nKw15h, it is not necessary to moralize.
And that we again will start to make the new rules corrected and again somebody will be any dodges and somebody again will behold darkness.
Let the hoster of contest defines at once that it is impossible. But if he something has not seen it its headache. All of us, we are on an equal conditions and nobody has any advantage. Any restrictions they cut flight of human thought.

[markmadras]

Vankwish, we are going through a transition period, does it realy matter that we are still using Dark forces. This period is not likely to last more than a few contests before the Beta 2 is produced, at which point we can say goodbye to Dark force hopefully forever .

The force that still remains is very much smaller, a paddle just falls to bits and an ordinary multi plate jackhammer will not work like it did in AR1. Making use of some extra energy that is produced when the plates seperate it can be used to give a gentle launch to the Dillo. Welding no longer produces energy but when nodes are intersected it is possible to vaporise components. Peter will be removing these faults, and some others, from the next Beta version and I would guess that will be under test in these contests fairly soon .

Before the new Beta version comes out we may as well have some fun with the present one.

[Votart Silak]

I completely agree with markmadras!

[V4nKw15h]

Sorry if anyone thought I was trying to change the rules of this particular competition. I wasn't.

I obviously arrived late to this one and didn't know rules were added mid competition. I was just confused why suddenly dark solutions were being awarded both and the competition win, with real light solutions being relegated to fun only. Seemed all backwards to me.

I would have also naturally expected players to avoid jackhammers and level breaking because they have always been obvious dark solutions. I hope they are banned in all subsequent competitions until they are made impossible by the game itself.

Then we can find and discuss the lightness of other solutions we find.

[markmadras]

Vankwish, I understand where you are coming from, but the present beta version will not be in use for many more contests. I agree that there is little point in re-testing the Dark force we have already found in AR2. In the remaining few contests that we have with this beta version it will be up to the host to decide what will and will not be allowed. Remember, it was only through players experimenting that the Dark forces were found in AR1 which Peter was not aware of. It therefore makes sense to use the AR2 Beta version "no holes barred" in order to find all of the bugs. If we now completely avoid any further use of the Dark forces we may miss something. Peter is pleased to receive examples of bugs so he has something to test his upgrades on. I have found several different examples of Dark force, some while doing something Light but some when doing something Dark which I would have missed if I was only trying for Light solutions.

Finaly, as I said before, this is a transition period for testing AR2, using Dark force will not be possible for much longer but avoiding it in contests now would be pointless and counterproductive. This period is all about progress towards a better AR completely free of bugs not about whether we continue to use Dark force while it still exists. We can look forward to the day when Dark forces will no longer need to be discussed. We do not need to implement new rules just for the few remaining contests that will use this Beta version.

[rob]

Couldn't agree more. Just make a nice clean solution for honor and then try to break the rules any way possible to help peter make the best of ar2.

2666 and 2798
Looks like I have to tweak some more to have a shot at either medal but already had a lot of fun with this level (the part)

[markmadras]

I've just got up to 2880 but Votart has 2900+ and I thought I had done well

And I just managed to get 2520 so looks like I need some more tweaking but after a couple of hours tweaking tonight I'm out of ideas . Looks like this could be Votarts, or maybe Vankwish if he joins in .

[rob]

I can't figure out how to use a jackhammer to solve this (never been into jackhammers). I did however tweak a bit: 2818

EDIT: and 2686

[V4nKw15h]

Looks like this could be Votarts, or maybe Vankwish if he joins in .

I'm not joining in the jackhammer solution. But I know exactly what my score would be if I did, because I could easily copy the rest of my solution from previous solutions.

The jackhammer saves me $106. I simply can't be bothered to spend the 5-45 minutes to tweak it to knock the dillo just right. I know it's possible, but it would be about as much fun as pulling teeth.

My time was spent already on a light solution. I've never been a fan of dark.

My interest is also in finding interesting new stuff, not tweaking old ideas that I've done to death already.

[ioncorpse]

There is a possibility, that results will only tomorrow. I'm apologize, if so.